10 replies to this topic

[griz]

I'm sitting here in shocked disbelief at this Fox News article.

Did I read the wages & benefit numbers correctly?

Average GOVT employee = $67.7k pay + $41k benefits...$108k

Average non-govt-employee in same job = $60k pay + $9.9k benefits...$70k

I thought government employees were overpaid when I thought they made less than folks in the private sectors. BTW - didn't that used to be the common wisdom? "You don't make as much working for the GOVT but you have great job security, good health care and an excellent retirement package." What happened with that?

[Nimrod]

GOVT workers don't pay into Social Security. And Obama wants GOVT workers to have big discount on tuition for college education. I could go on and on but....

Actually what happened is UNIONS.

[chenvt]

Nimrod, on 05 March 2010 - 11:35 PM, said:

GOVT workers don't pay into Social Security. And Obama wants GOVT workers to have big discount on tuition for college education. I could go on and on but....

Actually what happened is UNIONS.

Federal Workers in the old pension system don't pay into social security.. Employees after 1987 are under a 401k style program (with like a 1% pension or something like that). Under hte 401k style program, known as the Thrift Savings Plan, the government matches contributions ot the 401k for every dollar up to like 3% and then for then I think matches 50 cents for every dollar up to an additional 1.5%.

There's also a couple of other things to take into account. 2008 is a down year for the economy and private sector. Not that I've looked it up, but one thing to check is what happens during good years of the economy. Heck during 2004-2006, my friends in the big accounting firms were getting $20k bonuses. Federal salaries are more stable over time. They don't reap bonuses and raises during the good times, but are more immune to decreases in bad times. I'll also throw in that DOD just came out with a paper on what to consider for positions. The most expensive for on-site turns out to be an O-5 (LTC in the Army/AF/Marines and a Cmdr in the Navy), then a contractor, then a federal civilian (GS-14 Step 5). Actually the surprising thing is that the federal government is still paying for positions like janitors and cooks (maybe those are the more unionized positions).

Are there some ridiculously overpaid federal workers? Hells yeah.. But this "analysis" by USA today is far from comprehensive or accurate. You can easily cherry pick 10 fields and have it skew in the other direction. Maybe I'm in an odd field, but half my buddies have left for the private sector and make more money even now. Heck, when I was in Iraq and Afghanistan, contractors that were reporting to me were making 2x as much. This has been a big problem in certain fields like intel and acquisitions where people will go in at an entry level in the government, get 5 years or so of experience, then bolt for the private sector and make more money doing the same stuff. Which btw costs the taxpayer more because now not only are we paying for that person's higher salary and everything, we're also paying the company he/she belongs to's overhead costs and profit.

What the federal government needs to do is be able to fire a large portion of the asshats who are milking shit because it's almost impossible to get fired. I had a guy who fell asleep in meetings, and wouldn't even use spellcheck before I'd review his work. I think I told this guy 5 times that the word "come" is not spelled "cum". I did everything by the book. I held regular performance reviews, documented it, had him sign, give warnings, multiple opportunities, etc. When I went to the bosses at the end of the year to say that he should be let go, they took it 'under consideration" and a year later he was still there fucking up. You literally have to something obscene to get fired. I've seen 3 people "fired" and the last one was a guy who called the office's chief of staff a cocksucker and told him to "get the fuck out of my face".

And if there is a Union they did a shitty job, because the federal across the board increase was the lowest it's been in YEARS (lower than any of the 8 years of the Bush Administration) at I think 1.5% or 2%.

Edited by chenvt, 06 March 2010 - 02:32 AM.

[Prizetek]

chenvt, on 06 March 2010 - 02:28 AM, said:

Blah, Blah, Blah

You forgot the fact that government workers generally do a shitty job at everything, have little or no real accountability, can be difficult if not impossible to fire, and what they do on average is far, far, FAR less valuable than what an "equivalent" (actually there is no such thing) REAL worker in the actual competitive private marketplace does.

I remember back in the early 90s when I was a consultant and I used to roam the government offices in Crystal City and you would see guys fast asleep at their desks in the afternoon with supervisors powerless to do anything. Some supervisors used to tell me the way they tried to handle the most worthless "workers" was to give them a glowing review so that they could transfer to another department and become someone else's problem. But this practice had become so common that supervisors were becoming suspicious whenever they saw some employee who was getting reviews that were "too good to be true" from another supervisor.

As a society, it should be one of our top goals to have as FEW government workers as absolutely possible

You must be a government worker or atr leats married to one.

[chenvt]

Prizetek, on 06 March 2010 - 06:58 AM, said:

You forgot the fact that government workers generally do a shitty job at everything, have little or no real accountability, can be difficult if not impossible to fire, and what they do on average is far, far, FAR less valuable than what an "equivalent" (actually there is no such thing) REAL worker in the actual competitive private marketplace does.

I remember back in the early 90s when I was a consultant and I used to roam the government offices in Crystal City and you would see guys fast asleep at their desks in the afternoon with supervisors powerless to do anything. Some supervisors used to tell me the way they tried to handle the most worthless "workers" was to give them a glowing review so that they could transfer to another department and become someone else's problem. But this practice had become so common that supervisors were becoming suspicious whenever they saw some employee who was getting reviews that were "too good to be true" from another supervisor.

As a society, it should be one of our top goals to have as FEW government workers as absolutely possible

You must be a government worker or atr leats married to one.

Yeah I am a gov worker, and I laid out the points you said above as well. I'm not disagreeing that there are a lot some lazy ones. And I absolutely agree that they are impossible to fire. And you are 100% right that the problem with government is that it's not a pay for performance or competitive system. And your pay is more reflective of how long you've been in there instead of what you've done. I want most of these near retirement fucks out as much as anyone. Do I plan to stay in government forever? Hell no.. Because as soon as I hit that pay wall where it becomes more of a time in factor, I'm out

[Nimrod]

I think you missed Griz statistics. 41K of benefits for GOVT worker compared to 10K in private. Not being able to get fired or let go is a HUGE benefit, imo.

[chenvt]

Nimrod, on 06 March 2010 - 11:32 AM, said:

I think you missed Griz statistics. 41K of benefits for GOVT worker compared to 10K in private. Not being able to get fired or let go is a HUGE benefit, imo.

No doubt, and that needs to change.. A lot of these people who break the 100k mark don't earn their check. I work in a place where a large portion of the staff are guys who are retired and double dipping because their stats look better on paper. But these guys are so checked out and useless that I'd prefer someone out of college or grad school on their first job because they have more motivation. But the salary structure and government attempts at doing pay for performance have miserably failed. DOD after a couple years of experimenting on a pay for performance bled people who left for other agencies and then it got tied up in courts.. DOD caved in and is returning to the old antiquated system of the GS scale which needs to be totally redesigned

Edited by chenvt, 06 March 2010 - 01:18 PM.

[Prizetek]

chenvt, on 06 March 2010 - 10:33 AM, said:

Yeah I am a gov worker, and I laid out the points you said above as well. I'm not disagreeing that there are a lot some lazy ones. And I absolutely agree that they are impossible to fire. And you are 100% right that the problem with government is that it's not a pay for performance or competitive system. And your pay is more reflective of how long you've been in there instead of what you've done. I want most of these near retirement fucks out as much as anyone. Do I plan to stay in government forever? Hell no.. Because as soon as I hit that pay wall where it becomes more of a time in factor, I'm out

+1 for honesty. Which proves that while you might be in the government, you are not an elected politician.

[Tech]

Quote

And if there is a Union they did a shitty job, because the federal across the board increase was the lowest it's been in YEARS (lower than any of the 8 years of the Bush Administration) at I think 1.5% or 2%

I feel so sad for them. How many companies forced people to take 5%, 10% or more in pay cuts during that same period? How many people lost their jobs while the federal government continued to grow?

Fuck them all. I suggest an immediate 10% cut across the board on their wages and a huge change in benefit structure.

[chenvt]

Tech, on 07 March 2010 - 04:25 PM, said:

I feel so sad for them. How many companies forced people to take 5%, 10% or more in pay cuts during that same period? How many people lost their jobs while the federal government continued to grow?

Fuck them all. I suggest an immediate 10% cut across the board on their wages and a huge change in benefit structure.

Start at the top! President/Congress first

[Tech]

Four men were bragging about how smart their cats were. The first man was an Engineer, the second man an Accountant, the third a Chemist, and the fourth was a Government Employee.

To show off, the Engineer called to his cat, "T-square, do your stuff." T-square pranced over to the desk, took out some paper and pen and promptly drew a circle, a square, and a triangle. Everyone agreed that was pretty smart.

But the Accountant said his cat could do better. He called his cat and said, "Spreadsheet, do your stuff." Spreadsheet went out to the kitchen and returned with a dozen cookies. He divided them into 4 equal piles of 3 cookies. Everyone agreed that was good.

But the Chemist said his cat could do better.. He called his cat and said, "Measure, do your stuff." Measure got up, walked to the fridge, took out a quart of milk, got a 10 ounce glass from the cupboard and poured exactly 8 ounces without spilling a drop into the glass. Everyone agreed that was pretty good.

Then the three men turned to the Government Employee and said, "What can your cat do?" The Government Employee called his cat and said, "CoffeeBreak, do your stuff."

CoffeeBreak jumped to his feet.......
ate the cookies.........
drank the milk.......
shit on the paper.......
screwed the other three cats.......
claimed he injured his back while doing so........
filed a grievance report for unsafe working conditions.......
put in for Workers Compensation...............
and went home for the rest of the day on sick leave............

AND THAT, MY FRIEND IS WHY EVERYONE WANTS TO WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT!!