85 replies to this topic

[insight]

So sounds like Lee and Froglicker need to get put up for a vote for the list

[jfields]

I'd say definitely for Lee.
Don't know any information about the other.

[Gee-Man]

I like SAFs idea. Froglicker to the list.

No idea about Lee.

[ChiTown_Huck]

Froglicker is a no-brainer.

[dhoffman]

No doubt froglicker, he's worse than a thief, he's betrayed trusts. Not sure who Lee is, if he's Nateski, then yes he's a douchebag too, add him.

Edited by dhoffman, 16 February 2010 - 04:25 PM.

[dhoffman]

SAF, on 03 February 2010 - 11:33 AM, said:

This reads like minutes from a senate meeting.

Fuck the "gatekeeper" nonsense, it is going nowhere. Just list the people whom you think need to be added to the list and take a poll, start a similar thread at CF and then edit the list by consensus.
Carry on.

Totally agree with this, I'm beginning to see why the senator from Indiana is resigning.

[Van55]

Information on Leebo can be found here: http://www.cigarsnob...topic=3547&st=0

Infomration on froglicker can be found here: http://lounge.cigarf...ad.php?t=229398

[Da Ali G]

I nominate Van55 as grand poobah gatekeeper. He clearly has the most interest in the list.

[moki]

I will happily make the page and editing facilities available to whomever decides to take up the lead on maintaining the list.

I suggest that there be 2-3 people on a council that must have unanimous agreement before someone is put on the list.

I'd also suggest coming up with a policy about when (if ever) to remove someone from the list.

There should also be a point of contact where complaints can be sent in. I'd be happy to make a forum or such for that purpose, though I suspect doing it in private via email might be more palatable to people.

[Tech]

moki, on 17 February 2010 - 07:15 AM, said:

I will happily make the page and editing facilities available to whomever decides to take up the lead on maintaining the list.

I suggest that there be 2-3 people on a council that must have unanimous agreement before someone is put on the list.

I'd also suggest coming up with a policy about when (if ever) to remove someone from the list.

There should also be a point of contact where complaints can be sent in. I'd be happy to make a forum or such for that purpose, though I suspect doing it in private via email might be more palatable to people.

I'm not sure if folks should ever come off the list (unless it is proven that the claims against them were unfounded). A transgression has to be pretty bad before they are placed there. Perhaps they could be moved to a section identifying them as having past issues placing them on 'probation? Just my opinion, YMMV.

[Fuente Fan]

It should be difficult to get off the list. We have had people wait a year or so and come back and try a new scam. Also just from the last few posts it shows the person/people who do this should be on multiple boards. I never even heard of this Lee. I am only ever on CF, GarTrader, and Wades.

[jfields]

Fuente Fan, on 17 February 2010 - 08:04 AM, said:

It should be difficult to get off the list. We have had people wait a year or so and come back and try a new scam. Also just from the last few posts it shows the person/people who do this should be on multiple boards. I never even heard of this Lee. I am only ever on CF, GarTrader, and Wades.

Lee is the owner of Cigar Snobs. He screwed up the 08 SS, but eventually made it right. Then still hasn't made good on the 09 SS after being given a second chance.

Phil, would you be willing to be the voice for CP? You're obviously in the know on various boards.

Just say yes or no! If you agree then that's one down and two to go.

[insight]

I will participate if nobody else wants the job in the interest of getting some stuff actually done here.

[Van55]

Fuente Fan, on 17 February 2010 - 08:04 AM, said:

It should be difficult to get off the list. We have had people wait a year or so and come back and try a new scam. Also just from the last few posts it shows the person/people who do this should be on multiple boards. I never even heard of this Lee. I am only ever on CF, GarTrader, and Wades.

I believe that Leebo was once active at CF. I met him in person at one of RMM's Richmond get-togethers that was arranged there.

[jfields]

insight, on 17 February 2010 - 01:08 PM, said:

I will participate if nobody else wants the job in the interest of getting some stuff actually done here.

Cool!

That's one down and two more needed.

What about HEV? Anyone have contact with him to see if he can reply Y/N?

What about VAN55? Anyone have a problem with him since he seems to know so much about what's going on?

[Van55]

Here's Lee's CF member information:

Leebo August 26, 2002 1,310 Lee B******* Richmond,



1310 is is number of CF posts.

Edited by Van55, 17 February 2010 - 01:26 PM.

[Tech]

[jfields]

Tech, on 17 February 2010 - 04:38 PM, said:

No Joke!!!

[dhoffman]

LOL, like watching 2 monkeys fuck a football!

[HF Monty]

[Ninja]

LOL @ HF.

Hey, I clicked the link to the scumbag list, but got redirected to the general cigar section of GT. Anyone else have this problem? IS my computer acting stupid or is my link broke/old?

[insight]

Looks like vitolas.net in general is redirecting to GT right now.

[Gee-Man]

Dallas, I'm in the same situation. Moki......Ayudame!!! Auxilio!

[dpatt]

let the scumbagary commence.

[hev]

I guess Ill be a part of it.

[jfields]

hev, on 19 February 2010 - 02:22 PM, said:

I guess Ill be a part of it.

Great!

hev
Insight

Anyone have any ideas for one more so we can stop playing Congress?

[jfields]

A group of 40 years old buddies discuss and discuss where they should meet
for dinner. Finally it is agreed upon that they should meet at the Gausthof
zum Lowen restaurant because the waitress's there have low cut blouses and
nice breasts.

************

10 years later, at 50 years of age, the group meets again and once again
they discuss and discuss where they should meet. Finally it is agreed upon
that they should meet at the Gausthof zum Lowen because the food there is
very good and the wine selection is good also.

************

10 years later at 60 years of age, the group meets again and once again they
discuss and discuss where they should meet. Finally it is agreed upon that
they should meet at the Gausthof zum Lowen because they can eat there in
peace and quiet and the restaurant is smoke free.

************

10 years later, at 70 years of age, the group meets again and once again
they discuss and discuss where they should meet. Finally it is agreed upon
that they should meet at the Gausthof zum Lowen because the restaurant is
wheel chair accessible and they even have an elevator.

***********

10 years later, at 80 years of age, the group meets again and once again
they discuss and discuss where they should meet. Finally it is agreed upon
that they should meet at the Gausthof zum Lowen because that would be a
great idea because they have never been there before

[SAF]

^ I like that! LOL

[moki]

Ninja, on 17 February 2010 - 06:39 PM, said:

LOL @ HF.

Hey, I clicked the link to the scumbag list, but got redirected to the general cigar section of GT. Anyone else have this problem? IS my computer acting stupid or is my link broke/old?

No, that's correct. Everything going to vitolas.net redirects here. I did this because I plan to move everything from vitolas.net to this forum, so that I only have one site to maintain.

I plan to move all of the pictures & info over here.

I also plan to move the scumbags list over here.

Today is my last day in Malaysia, and I'll be traveling for 24 hours or so to return home... and then need some down time. After that, I plan to address the Scumbag's List first, and then work on moving the rest of Vitolas.net over here.

Since we seem to be chasing our own tail a bit in terms of the Scumbag's list, I will make some decisions as well in terms of how it will be run/managed. I'll then find some people who are willing to assist with running it, and away we go.

So I apologize for the neglect of late, but give me a week or so, and we'll start moving forward on this.

Pursuant to this, I've had my sysadmin register the domain:

ScumbagsList.com

Which will be a nice home for the list.

[Ninja]

That's going to pull a lot of hits on google that are not cigar related. lol

[jfields]

moki, on 22 February 2010 - 11:49 AM, said:

No, that's correct. Everything going to vitolas.net redirects here. I did this because I plan to move everything from vitolas.net to this forum, so that I only have one site to maintain.

I plan to move all of the pictures & info over here.

I also plan to move the scumbags list over here.

Today is my last day in Malaysia, and I'll be traveling for 24 hours or so to return home... and then need some down time. After that, I plan to address the Scumbag's List first, and then work on moving the rest of Vitolas.net over here.

Since we seem to be chasing our own tail a bit in terms of the Scumbag's list, I will make some decisions as well in terms of how it will be run/managed. I'll then find some people who are willing to assist with running it, and away we go.

So I apologize for the neglect of late, but give me a week or so, and we'll start moving forward on this.

Pursuant to this, I've had my sysadmin register the domain:

ScumbagsList.com

Which will be a nice home for the list.

Well you do already have commitments from hev and Phil to be on the board of decision makers. So one more and you should be good right.?

[kludge]

Just a thought here guys, but what good is the list if no one is going to bother to pay attention to it? I mean, I noticed someone on the list who disappeared for a few years and is now back at CF and appears to be buying and selling again and no one so much as raised an eyebrow the best I can tell.

[Ninja]

That is always an issue kludge. I think that is a buyer beware kinda thing.

But in honesty, how many newbies even know about the list now that most of the fogs are gone from CF? And if you don't already have a link, go try and see how not so easy it is to find on CF.

So since the list has kinda fallen dead after Harris and that one legal issue a few years back, there is a bit of an awareness/advertising problem that may be fixed with Moki's idea of a dedicated URL and the people working with it putting links on their profiles and the like.

[kludge]

Ninja, on 22 February 2010 - 01:31 PM, said:

That is always an issue kludge. I think that is a buyer beware kinda thing.

But in honesty, how many newbies even know about the list now that most of the fogs are gone from CF? And if you don't already have a link, go try and see how not so easy it is to find on CF.

So since the list has kinda fallen dead after Harris and that one legal issue a few years back, there is a bit of an awareness/advertising problem that may be fixed with Moki's idea of a dedicated URL and the people working with it putting links on their profiles and the like.

You make some very valid points.

Just so everyone is clear, this is the guy I was referring to


Gibby...

It was a bit interesting having him throw his own 2 cents in on the froggy thread... bit ironic since he committed the same trade violation! :

[moki]

My thoughts on the Scumbags List

I've been hosting the list for some time, but it's something I inherited, and as such I've never felt that the list was mine, or that I had any right to change how things worked.

I think the idea of a "scumbags and bad trader's list" is a good one. But I think if we're going to move forward with modernizing it, some changes can and should be made.

Here are my thoughts, in no particular order:

• Point of contact - there should be a single, easily found point of contact for submitting candidates for the scumbags list, and for other related inquiries.
  
• Procedures - there should be transparent procedures in terms of what documentation to submit, standards of proof, who qualifies to be on the list, etc. When people know the rules, they tend to view things in a more fair light.
  
• Degrees of scumbaggery - there should be more than just on or off of the list, there should be tiered names of the severity of the infractions people have committed. People who are slow to pay should be on the list, but labeled as such. Outright thieves should be listed as well, but with the appropriate moniker.
  
• Documentation - for every case, there should be documentation in the form of saved threads, PMs, etc. that are linked to and provided as proof of guilt. More than just a name on a list, which seems arbitrary.
  
• Transparency - I want to let people know exactly how the list works, and I'm a huge fan of transparency. The rules will be clearly outlined.
  
• Privacy of "Judges" - while I think the procedures should be entirely transparent, I think the identities of the people who are weighing the evidence should be opaque. The reason is simply to allow them to do their job without fear of reprisals or influence.

While I realize this doesn't get into the specifics, these are the overriding ideas I think make a lot of sense for such a thing. The specifics I will work on.

[Allofus123]

moki, on 22 February 2010 - 02:18 PM, said:

My thoughts on the Scumbags List

• Point of contact - there should be a single, easily found point of contact for submitting candidates for the scumbags list, and for other related inquiries.
• Procedures - there should be transparent procedures in terms of what documentation to submit, standards of proof, who qualifies to be on the list, etc. When people know the rules, they tend to view things in a more fair light.
• Degrees of scumbaggery - there should be more than just on or off of the list, there should be tiered names of the severity of the infractions people have committed. People who are slow to pay should be on the list, but labeled as such. Outright thieves should be listed as well, but with the appropriate moniker.
• Documentation - for every case, there should be documentation in the form of saved threads, PMs, etc. that are linked to and provided as proof of guilt. More than just a name on a list, which seems arbitrary.
• Transparency - I want to let people know exactly how the list works, and I'm a huge fan of transparency. The rules will be clearly outlined.
• Privacy of "Judges" - while I think the procedures should be entirely transparent, I think the identities of the people who are weighing the evidence should be opaque. The reason is simply to allow them to do their job without fear of reprisals or influence.

Very well stated!

[Ninja]

Def agree with #3 Moki.

I would add, as a thought, that a password be associated with the site. Some easily availabe or published on this or another site. I don't pretend to know the details of how the google bot does its searches, but hopefully this may help keep the details of the names off of public searches to avoid the issue that happened a few years ago.

Any password can be written out right next to a link to the site, so I don't think it would interfere with the functionality.

[Van55]

Has this ever been finalized?

Rumor has it that Leebo not only did not make good on his Secret Santa committment, he now has let the lights get turned out at CigarSnobs where he used to sit and judge others as asshats or not.

[HF Monty]

Van55, on 05 March 2010 - 05:31 PM, said:

Has this ever been finalized?

Rumor has it that Leebo not only did not make good on his Secret Santa committment, he now has let the lights get turned out at CigarSnobs where he used to sit and judge others as asshats or not.

Lights are on here......

[Van55]

HF Monty, on 05 March 2010 - 11:37 PM, said:

Lights are on here......

Yeah, I saw that. Rumor wasn't accurate. My bad.